Nintendo Wii Fanboy

I agree. When I got Sonic and the Secret Rings, I was very disappointed in the controls. Sonic is not a car!!! I was hoping to have better control of him using the control stick, and using the buttons to make him jump. Having to do all sorts of gestures to make him jump and attack and such, all while steering him, really annoyed me...

But with Zelda, the controls are perfect. The motion controls are reserved for attacking and defending.

The controls shouldn't become a challange of the game, motion should make the game more intuitive and fun, not frustrating.

Developers need to use the motion controls only when it would make it more fun or intuitive. And if they do use motion controls, they should have easy on screen instructions on which way to move the wiimote when the player will first use the specific command.

In the Mario Galaxy demo, I saw these little onscreen animated icons with the remote that tell you how to wag the remote, and I think something like that would make these games so much better.

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EA Sports Cricket would be the most incredible wii game of all time! Line drives, hook shots, then bowling would awesome too, spinning and fast balls... and the buttons for the different types of bowling.

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Honestly most of the games that I have played for the Wii the motion controls have been used really well. True that I think there have been some overkills in a hand full of games. I for one hope that MOH: Heroes 2 with all the motion controls that they have announced don't screw the game up (especially the online part). I also have to add that I do enjoy the games more when I can have the option of using the classic controller for days when I don't feel like waggling (example sick or hangover).

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I think it should be whatever feels natural to the devs (the good devs, not the idiots who think whichever is more gimmicky will make more money and spoil Wii by making it their gimmick box). If a gesture seems unnecessary, it probably is and will just give the anti-Nintendo fire more wood to burn by saying we look ridiculous doing it (while they sit there and rot in their basements, I might add :D). Things like aiming with the wiimote, and swinging the sword, or swinging the tennis racket make sense (the Mario Tennis style move and press to swing gameplay gets boring pretty fast) and a wide world of possibilities beyond that moke sense because they advance the gameplay and reduce the need for 26 button controllers as games become naturally more complicated. I'll even let shaking the nunchuck to reload pass but certain things are just going too far, like some of the moves in Rival Swords don't even make sense as much fun as the game was like shake the wiimote four times and the nunchuck five for this move but don't shake the wiimote five times anf the nunchuck four because that does something completely different and send you flying off a cliff? Does this make sense to anyone?

A similar issue could be brought up that pressing B to swing your sword makes even less sense. At least now the characters in our in-game tutorials can say swing your sword rather than press this button. Seriously? Press what button? If I'm supposed to be Link running aroud Hyrule vanquishing evil, am I going to carry a game controller around with me? That tutorial thing is just a small problem, nothing to maka a big deal about, but the buttons this is an interesting question, I think.

Happy hunting,
FX-1

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Honestly, two games NEED to be brought to the Wii. Desperately. It is their calling. Those are Black and White and Okami. Now that the latter is on the way, It can be taken off the list. (and with Ready at Dawn behind the wheel it will work. No questions asked). Now, where is Lionhead? Hmm...

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I find it interesting that the past few posts I've made have been turned into topics of future blog entries (this one included). Its good to hear the writers are listening in on the comments of their audience =)

Anyway I believe waggle games are a gimmick. They are great for the casual games and fun experience, but they are not for the hardcore game. I mentioned a few times now, games such as Devil May Cry or God of War really require precision and timing, something which can never be provided by waggle.

I believe waggle will never be effective. Nintendo cut costs by using an accelerometer instead of gyros and hence you have the main cause of all the bad motion controls that the Wii has had thus far (except for a select few games).

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The motion control has worked very well on the games I've played save a few that were more likely from the developer than NIntendo.

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I second: gestures suck.

Zelda was more or less palatable. Combos sucked but it was possible to play 99% of game w/o them.

Raving Rabids sucked big time - thanks to unintuitive controls abusing gestures.

But on other side, WiiSport though in non-interactive way uses gestures and it is OK.

SSX Blur tried to apply WiiMote naturally - and failed. Without feedback as in real life such control do not work.

Excite Truck is probably only game which has literally ideal controls. Modulo tricks, of course: tricks are the same gestures and suck even in the otherwise good game.

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"But some games need to have motion controls ... or what's the point?"

The IR pointer is the Point. The mainstream media can't see past Wii Sports and motion controls, but what made me buy the Wii was the IR pointer and the promise of an end to dual analog.

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I agree with mian. The motion controls are more advertised and what everybody thinks of, but the location controls are just as important, if not more so. When I played Twilight Princess on the Wii, it wasn't swinging the sword that made me sure it was better than the GC version (the swinging isn't perfect, and sometimes doesn't respond as expected). It was aiming with arrows and boomerang and other items. It just made the game so much less exasperating than previous Zelda games.

The IR sensor is probably the most similar feature that the Wii has to the wildly popular DS. I think if developers realized this, then they'd make more use of the pointing features, and less use of the motion sensing. Not to say that motion sensing is bad, but it simply isn't necessary for everything.

Gestures are like the rest of motion sensing, but crappy and terrible. To some extent, they're okay (stab the remote for a stab attack, horizontal motion for a horizontal slice), but right from the start I've seen all kinds of crazy things that don't make even a tiny bit of sense. Move your remote in the shape of an hourglass for this attack, twist it back and forth for this other attack, and occasionally make a spiral. I swear, it's even worse than Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow. Developers should really make sure that a gesture is logical and intuitive before putting it into a game.

Obviously, there are gonna be some games that manage to do it right. Super Monkey Ball (and I'm assuming Dewy's Adventure) made great use of the motion detection, as would a Kirby Tilt and Tumble sequel/remake. Zelda did gestures without going into the realm of zany and ridiculous, and as a result, the controls didn't feel like they hurt the game. Wii Sports was by no means perfect (putting in Golf seems to have some issues, especially), but they got the basic idea right as far as controls were concerned. Everything worked as expected, with no odd surprises. If more developers would look at how these games made use of the Wii remote, I suspect that the anti-Wii crowd would have a lot less firepower.

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Covarr seems to have it down. The pointer is important (though I sort of automatically mesh it in with motion sensing) and other forms of motion sensing don't hurt (and I'd go as far as to say they actually help) the experience when done in ways that aren't overly ridiculous.

@Ihar: I think Zelda's controls were fine, if you think there was any big problem with that game, you're just nit picking. I enjoyed Raving Rabbids as well. THe controls weren't perfect by any means but that wasn't such a problem with that game, it was just for some casual fun which even the most "hardcore" of gamers need sometimes. That was one of the few games to get casual on Wii right.

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What people have to realize for Wii is what developers had to realize for the DS, the system's "gimmick" isn't always necessary (Mario Kart DS & Brawl say hi)

If it works naturally, do it, if not, don't shoehorn. I think Sonic Secret Rings is good for this, the only thing that didn't feel natural (and something everyone hated) was backing up, they really should've done something about that.

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Replace gimmick with revolution or something similar and you've got a wining post, Mr Khan.

The motion controls are like the touch screen, it's there to encourage devs to make something unique, not another mindless alien killing shooter, but if your idea is awesome enough without the motion control or touch screen, by all mean, use it.

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That's why i put gimmick in quotes, gimmick is the correct word, but with a neutral connotation, not a negative one

a gimmick isn't a bad thing necessarily, but it has become a dirty word amongst us Wii fans

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Eh, Metroid and Zelda have it down perfectly.

(except for the jump ball....)
Oh well.

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As long as it feels natural to the user i think its a good idea. Theres nothing in metroid prime 3 that feels awkward while using the remote. Zelda felt so comfortable i couldnt believe it. Even the godfather game, although not many people seemed to like it, actually felt pretty good when you were beating the crap out of people then shooting them in the knee-caps. It all comes down to whether the creators use motion-control as a haphazardous weapon or as an intuitive auxillary that enhances the gaming experience.

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@14, good point, I wasn't sure what you meant by the quotations.

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Really it should be this, when a game can benefit from motion controls use it, when it doesn't don't, mostly a game needs to be built from the ground up if you're going to use the motion controls do not try to shoehorn the controls into a port

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RE4: Wii Edition did a great job. I like turning the wiimote in a circle to turn a crank on the screen. When a zombie grabs you, just shake the wiimote frantically! Most of us did that with the old non-dualshock PS1 controllers when we first played RE anyway!!

What about a game that ONLY uses motion control? Any other older folks here remember Warlords? The paddle set up on the Atari was awesome, but imagine holding the wiimote up and down (vertically) and just motioning your hand around the castle to position your shield... man that would ROCK!

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While I am greatly looking forward to Okami, I would absolutely kill for a new Jet Grind Radio game, using the Wii controls.

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Well at least you wouldn't kick puppies for it.

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Personally, it works when you are mimicking the action you are trying to do on screen. When you are just moing the wiimote in a random direction to perform an action, or are just flicking it around to do certian moves, then that's when it sucks. That's; why I'm looking forward to Zach and Wiki. It will finally allow devs to see how the wiimote SHOULS work. Thats why Harry Potter suckis: they added waggle controls to the wand controls when JK herself stated how do perform them in her books. Remember the "swish and flick" for Wingardium Leviosa (or however you spell it) description? So... why aren't devs then using the "swish and flick" motions?

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It really is perfect for shooting.

But I'm still waiting for a great swordplay game. It doesn't have to be a fast reflex type of thing. I'd be happy with having to hold the controller high, low, left, or, right in order to block... and pushing A to swing a blow from one of those angles.

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Every developer should put in some motion controls of some kind. Look at mortal kombat game for wii it has motion controls and if you want you can just attach classic controller. whatever. Games like zack and wiki seem like something that would take allot away from game if no motion controls, madden worked very well too but monkey ball was horrible on wii when in theory it should of been awesome.

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I think the pointer is great. But motion controls tend to be messy in fast paced games. Zelda is a great example of good controls. It's basically regular controls, with some additional pointer and movement controls. It's not like I want an adventure game with Wario Ware Smooth Moves controls...

And yeah, that Konami soccer game looks great. It seems like clever use of the pointer. The pointer is the part of the wiimote you have best control over, so it should be used further. The accelerator sensors are a tad disappointing I think.

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^I agree totally. The use of accelerometers really restricts the measuring of angles (since the accelerometer can only measure angle when the wiimote isn't currently in motion). They really should've went with gyroscopes, but then Wiimote pricing would've probably doubled.

Also for some reason, early games like Raving Rabbids or Warioware (and the current Wii menu for some reason) has terrible IR pointing. It is very jerky. New games like Metroid on the other hand, have a very smooth cursor. Does anyone know why this is? Anyway I hope that future games maintain nice smooth IR pointing.

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I do agree that pointing with the remote a la Metroid or RE4 really seems to be the strong point of the controllers, especially considering even some hardcore gamers don't want to go back to dual-analog after trying the Metroid method.

But unlike the Rabbid-haters here, I had a lot of fun with that game, and I did like the much-bashed Twilight Princess controls as well. No, they weren't 1:1, but they gave you a nice interactive feeling without making you stupid tired (1:1 would have been too damn much).

But I think Excite Truck might be my favorite example-- it was mostly enjoyable because of the super fun controls. The game has a chaotic style and it might not translate to other driving games, but if Mario Kart capitalizes on that style I'm willing to say the Wii is great both for FPS and racing.

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